Comments on: academicians are pussies

By: mudphudder

mudphudder — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:09:43 +0000

Thanks for everyones support. And I completely agree with all of your approaches, namely that there situations worth fighting about and situations that aren’t worth fighting about. And, more often than not, it is not worth it, but when it is, you gotta be firm. I’ve been in situations where I’ve had to put my foot down and just say “no, absolutely not”–I wish I could write specifics but it might ID me–and sometimes I’ve had to make a graceful withdrawal, trying to get as much out of it as possible (e.g. making sure I at least get some authorship, like Andrew was saying).

My point with this post was that there are definitely good people (medical and graduate students, postdocs and fellows) who unfortunately take the approach of this commenter and fight with anyone who may be trying to take something away. I’ve never seen this kind of approach work–i.e. none of them has ever stayed in academics–so I just wanted to put that warning out there. It sounds like you all (and probably most with some experience in academics) take a more prudent approach but if just one good person’s career can be saved by reading this…

btw. Splenomegastar- actually, I am a freak show.

Andrew- T cell assay? You’re a T cell guy? T cells are the BOMB. Good man.

Iar- We all get stepped on a lot. Well, most of us anyway. Keep your chin up–I’ve heard it at least gets a little bit better as we move higher on the totem pole.

By: splenomegastar

splenomegastar — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:07:50 +0000

Just as most blog writers are freakshows (present virtual company excluded), most blog readers are freakshows. I agree that you have to pick your battles in academia (and in the real world in general) unless you are one of those few gifted people that the community will take abuse from in exchange for huge contributions to the field. I think it’s good to finally hear someone writing openly about the dark side of academia. I’m only a second year md/phd student and I’ve already been screwed over as far as authorship. It’s not uncommon and I’m not a vulva just because I haven’t made a stink about it. However if my thesis work were involved, it would be a stink worth funking. Or something.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:22:57 +0000

Hey Mudphudder,

Definitely understand how trying not to step on others’ toes while a student can be at odds with standing up for yourself. I’ve found that the blunt, unemotional truth can be a powerful way to do so without crossing the professional line with some sort of “where to get off” response. If this woman was directly attacking you - i.e.- saying that your efforts were fruitless/not helping or that you were even hindering the project…or if she actually referred to you as “dead weight” (what a loser if that’s what she said). Here’s what I strongly recommend for a subsequent project meeting if the collaborator, we’ll assume her name is Ima Douche, doesn’t change her tone.

Ima: Blah blah, dead weight, blah, not helping.

Mudphudder’s response with direct eye contact back and forth to Ima and the PI: Well Ima, I disagree. The data I generated from the T cell assays is compelling. And these findings are clearly applicable to our x,y,z angle in this story. I don’t want to hinder progress towards the paper, so I agree that you should take over from here. If you end up including any T cell assay data in the manuscript, please don’t forget my contribution. I’d also be curious to see your results from follow-up experiments a,b,c.

To summarize: 1. Claim credit for yourself where credit is due 2. Avoid the useless flame war 3. Keep yourself in the loop and stay poised to receive appropriate authorship when the time comes.

Good luck buddy

By: iar

iar — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:10:18 +0000

I totally agree with your advice I think you have to pick your battles VERY carefully. I’ve been in a research lab for 3 years during undergrand and 2 during master’s-I don’t think I have to convince anyone that those are about as low as you can get on the totem pole. And believe me I got stepped on ALOT, but I can count on 1 measley finger the number of times I’ve actually stood up for myself. I agree with you point that you do not want to get a reputation for being an asshole very easily if you bitch after getting screwed over, and what I’ve seen the successful young faculty around me do it put their foot down before even getting into a situation where they could be screwed over. That is to say, much like you’ve mudphudder have mentioned with the collaboration you just got into and got out of, set guideline and try to come to agreements before you get into anything.
The other reason why I personally have felt like I can’t really be seen as the asshole who just reams people every time they try to screw me over (intentionally or not) is because until I am chair of a department (and this is arguable too, as I work for a chair and trust me, he does not tell anyone off, EVER) or a tenured faculty, I STILL need to get ahead in my career. In my opinion it is much harder to get that stellar letter or your PI’s good word in to another person you want to work for/with if you just made yourself look like you can’t play with others.
I think to get ahead in academia one must be very calculating and to be honest I think many of the highly successful academic around us are just that way. I think it is pretty easy to tell people off, and it is in fact much harder to um…censor yourself.